Friday, October 1, 2010

Thoughts on 2D love


I'm sure you guys are very familiar with 2D love. I'm sure some of you find it silly while others take it seriously. I felt like writing down some of my thoughts on it all, but I'm also using some personal examples and experiences, so be prepared for a slightly biased view on it all. This isn't meant to be a persuasive blog post or anything, it's just me free writing my thoughts a bit.

First of all, I feel I should get the misconception out of the way that 2D lovers are actually in love with "ink on a page" or anything of that sort. I tend to see this comment quite often. Troll or not, it's showing ignorance. I'm sure there are some 2D lovers who do actually love the ink on the page, but a majority of us, from what I've seen, don't think this way. It's as if you have a photo of your wife. If someone points to that photo and asks who that is, the logical response would be to say that it's your wife. Of course, you're not saying the photograph is your wife, but the person in the photo. That's how 2D love is. It's the character that you'd be in love with, the one that the image shows. Everything about that character that makes them who they are. When you have a 2D lover, you love a concept, not a physical object. You love everything that the character represents. 

"But she was made by some fat sweaty dude who wants you to like her, so he gets sales!"

And what if your girlfriend's father was some fat sweaty dude who made her for the purpose of hopefully getting into a rich family? Hypothetical of course, but does it really matter? Your girlfriend isn't her father. It doesn't matter who made her. She could have hideous parents and really hit the genetic jackpot to graze past all their bad genes and come out beautiful. Does that mean you love her less because her parents look like the back end of a horse?

"But she's not even real!"

What's the point here? We know this. You're not saying anything that will lead us to some kind of epiphany. We know this, and accept it. Some of us are glad about this fact. You're implying that you can look down on someone because they don't have a physical object to channel their emotions to? That they don't have a real person to lust over? This isn't even an argument, it's just someone thinking they can throw this as some sort of insult. It's a childish attempt to sling mud at someone.

Furthermore, most people into 2D don't want real. They realize that in reality, "happily ever afters" doesn't happen very often. Without diving too much into the subject (this could be a whole blog post on its own), people love 2D for many reasons. I often see people say that 2D lovers only love 2D because they can't get 3D, as if it's entirely ludicrous to love a character unless you're in the depths of depression. You can't summarize the human psyche like this. When it comes to the human brain, there is no clear cut path. I'm sure there are some who don't really like 2D, but turn to it as a form of happiness to divert their attention from a depressed life. These are the kind of people that, if given the chance, would absolutely leave their 2D lover for a real relationship. However, this is one case, and from the looks of it these people don't make up the majority of 2D lovers. 

There are even those who love 2D and try to get attention from it, such as the dudes who marry their DS or dakimakura. I won't really judge them, but I personally feel as if they're just making fools of themselves, but perhaps my perspective on them would change if I actually talked to them and asked a few questions myself. Seems more like they just want to show everyone that they're "different" from the world.

Anyway, I'll save some more of my thoughts in some later blog entries. For now I'll just end this blog post with an obligatory video:



~ Kirari ミ★

33 posts:

Hip-Hop Hikikomori said...

Bravo! You've hit the nail on the head with this post.

>When you have a 2D lover, you love a concept, not a physical object.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Although some people just won't listen to reason. There will always be those who will hate your lifestyle choices regardless of how you try to rationalize them.

Kirari Star said...

Right. There are some people who don't care what you say, they'll still use the same arguments that have been driven to the ground long ago, and still feel as if they're superior for not liking "paper"

frillydress said...

I remember watching this video. The guy pissed me off the whole time lol.

I personally am a 2D lover(very strong in fact). A lot of factors played into it(previous relationships always ended up going the same way etc.) Ever since I first met my waifu, I can't even look at a real girl without 3DPD being flashed on a bulleting board in my mind.

I'm also sure there are a fair amount of females that love 2D as well(boyfriends sucked, couldn't get one..whatever) So the idea of loving 2D isn't limited to 1 sex.

What it all comes down too is that if we feel a sense of loneliness, having something we can show our love to patches up that hole a lot better than not having anything. Especially those of us who are fed up with relationships or cannot get a relationship.

Nice post, I enjoyed it a lot!

Frillybloomers said...

That video made me ANGRY.

I have strong attraction to 2D, I can't help it. I don't find real girls attractive in the slightest anymore, I try to, but I just can't.

Kirari Star said...

Right, Frilly. There are people who genuinely like 2D and detest 3D. But there are many people who just can't seem to grasp that concept. It's so alien to them.

The thought that someone could love something other than another person.

You know, the ancient Greeks thought about love with a concept long ago. It's not like this is something new.

Humans are imperfect, I don't see why people find it so bizarre to like something closer to your own personal ideals of perfection.

Kirari Star said...

Er, I meant Frillybloomers. Was reading from the bottom comment to the top.

As for frillydress:
>So the idea of loving 2D isn't limited to 1 sex.

D'ohoho, you don't know how much I know this to be true.

>What it all comes down too is that if we feel a sense of loneliness, having something we can show our love to patches up that hole a lot better than not having anything. Especially those of us who are fed up with relationships or cannot get a relationship.

Not entirely. Some people feel this way, but as I've addressed, it's not the case for everyone. I can't stand the thought of being with another person, but that's a subject I may touch on later.

Natsume said...

You, you covered every point to the t, and my thoughts on the subject pretty much exactly mirror yours. Very nice post!

Cpt.Awesome said...

I only had one relationship before and it didn't end well. It pushed me towards 2D. I don't see why people look down on having a waifu. Some people idolize Edward from Twilight yet they're considered "normal".

J. said...

This is a great post, as eveyrone else has said. And yeah, the video is pretty frustrating.

>I can't stand the thought of being with another person

I relate to this.

A Hermit said...

I had to stop watching the video, it made me too angry.

RostranTargo said...

Wow, my thoughts exactly. Well done.

Rachelle said...

I love this entry and everything about it. You've basically articulated my exact thoughts on 2D love.

>>Furthermore, most people into 2D don't want real. They realize that in reality, "happily ever afters" don't happen very often.

Especially this. Perfection is unobtainable when you're dealing with 3D; with 2D, it is not only possible, but probable. Why settle for less?

Saryn said...

2D love huh...Well, to each their own I guess. Especially if you can stand one concept more than a real person.

Kami No Pocky said...

This is an interesting discussion and topic that will probably come up again more often I'm guessing.

>There are even those who love 2D and try to get attention from it, such as the dudes who marry their DS or dakimakura.
As I understand it, they are usually doing it for the lulz. The general impression I get to Japanese NEET, lolicon, and 2D culture is that they're just trying to have fun. They don't want to take themselves too seriously.

>Youtube video taking the moral high ground.
You know this sparks a very interesting branch to this all by itself. I was even reading up more on shame societies, and guilt societies recently. The acceptance of social norms are never questioned enough it seems... Sure, in the greater scheme of things opposing movements should be good for the whole, but in modern times things have gotten out of hand.
In fact the irony is that moralfags are the ones living in a fantasy world. They are the ones that don't seem to understand the actual core relevance of interaction between members of a society. Hundreds of thousands of years of human existence versus +/- 100 years of recent history?

What people often don't seem to understand is that 2D or virtual love is a side effect of progress, divorcing the mental functionality of our brain from the physical constraints of the body.

Decrying virtual fixations and affection as sick and wrong while upholding modern social standards is a logical fallacy. Both are products of the imagination, which is really just the ability to make connections that aren't actually there.

The difference is that with 2D love you don't actually need other people, yet morality is only necessary for dealing with other people. So 2D love can cancel out morality, but morality can't cancel out 2D love.

LainIwakura said...

As others have said, you echo my thoughts. Great post.

Jackie said...

Great post, hate the video :s

J. said...

>In fact the irony is that moralfags are the ones living in a fantasy world. They are the ones that don't seem to understand the actual core relevance of interaction between members of a society. Hundreds of thousands of years of human existence versus +/- 100 years of recent history?

I completely agree with you. You raise a lot of interesting points.

M. Mango said...

Whenever you "over there" speak about your 2D waifus, I would usually assume that most of you were just being ironic. Though, when I eventually learned that most of you were serious, instead of laughing and feeling sorry for you guys, I then remembered that I used to do the same thing when I was back in my highschool years.

It was Ami Mizuno from Sailor Moon, it started when I was like in 5th or 6th grade. As the years passed by, and when I was finally in highschool, she gradually faded away (or more like my imaginative and idealistic side did). Oh the fun times we had together, Ami. ;_; I never had a waifu since.

Yeah, also echoing my growing anger for that video.

2cat said...

2D lover reporting in. Good post with good points. Basically nobody knows of my 2D love, because I don't care if they know. And since I don't care I'm not revealing anything to anyone without good reason. Most people are ignorant to the point they make me sick.

McRohanheim said...

Non-2D lover here (I think). I don't think there's anything wrong with loving 2D girls. They are made to appeal to you so why should it be a problem if they appeal to you? People against this are either ignorant or trolling. Ignore them :)

Tohno said...

Very well put, I agree completely on all your points and everything you said, bravo.

I'm a 2D lover, and have been so for more then three years now.
I'm not a 2D lover because I "couldn't get a real woman" but because I have completely lost interest in them and now find them revolting.
I just fell in love with a girl who I love everything about, she's just completely perfect in everyday in my eyes.
There's just no comparison between her and "real" girls.

I also generally dislike real people, and don't like being around them, as such I don't see how I could ever possibly be happy involved with a real person, which makes being a 2D lover all the more befitting.
I'm also confident that I wouldn't leave her for the next random person that shows interest in me.


P.S. I've always hatted that video.

Kirari Star said...

I didn't realize this, but you wouldn't happen to be the tripfriend, would you? I remember the Tohno on /a/ like a year or two ago always popping up in waifu threads for debates.

Tohno said...

Yes, I used to post under the name/trip of
"Tohno ♥ !!UhnG3iuGcmC Minagi is mai waifu" on /a/ and a bit on /jp/.
As you may or may not know I went on to make a chan of my own almost a year back after getting feed up with how much things had degraded.
At the time it was darn near imposable to have a waifu thread without it being spammed by idiots, among numerous other problems with the site.

Sure, it might be true that debates with normals who to this day still ask if we're joking about 2D love, made things a bit interesting, where as without them waifu threads on /a/ would be little more then image dumps, but it just got to be way to much, besides, the waifu board on our chan does just fine for discussion, even without jerks debating us on the topic.

said...

i love your take on it, its hard to explain that to a person who is not familiar with much of it, or who chooses to separate them self from it.
i am a 2d lover =^.^=
and i look forward to your future posts

¡ɥsoſ said...

This is something I've always wondered about. I realize that most of the people who say they have waifus are sort of joking and they aren't serious, but at the same time they are serious.
I understand that people "fall in love" with the personality and characteristics of a certain 2D character. There are some 2D girls that I wish were real or had similar personalities. But I've never found myself pretending that a certain character is my wife. Don't get me wrong, I love the kawaii moé characters as much as the next otalku, but I just don't take pictures of me having lunch with a 2D girl and feeding them pieces of cake, no matter how much I like the character.
At least not yet..

Tohno said...

Waifu is just a term, I don't believe myself to be married to the character, and I don't think most other people do ether.

Many people do joke about it, but not as many as you might think
Call me pathetic if you will, but the feelings I have for my "waifu" are the closest to love I've ever known, I've never once felt the way I do about her for anyone else, not even close.

Those lunch/dinner pics aren't so much about feeding the characters as they are pretending to have a nice dinner or lunch with a person you love.
In a real relationship, having dinning across the table from your wife might be a common daily activate, but we have to improvise.

Link said...

That video makes me so frustrated.

I agree on all your points, and all the comments as well. I don't understand why some have problems with 2D love.

Franky Horrigan said...

Is this really so different from having a crush on a celebrity? After all, both are just generated ideals.

While I view the topic of artificially created objects of desire in a different philosophical light, I would like to note that I don't see a problem with it at all.
To be quite honest, there are much more horrific ways to spend ones time than having an infatuation with a person that is separated by planes of existence... having an infatuation with money is one thing that comes to my mind. Woe to me, the corpses of children and crying families I have seen that are a bi-product of another individuals lust for rank and power; mind you these types of people are most often revered in society for the achievements... however dubious the methods they used to attain such a state is not in question, neigh, we need only view their ideal world of sports cars and beautiful, and artificial people.
Perhaps those at the top of society are people that are even more artificial than the people (be these people in stories or fiction) the originally addressed individuals who harm no others happen to desire.
I don't care to try and define perfection, or anything like that. However talking down on other people is a very poor way to spend my time. There is so much pain in this world, I'd rather be alleviating it than causing a continuation in some disgusting cycle of abuse.

Kirari Star said...

Liking a celebrity is seen as more normal because they actually exist in physical form. Though, they may as well not exist to the person that likes them, because chances are very likely they will never meet that celebrity they have an infatuation with.

Anonymous said...

I'm a female 2D lover. And i understand completely. Like I dont nessisarily think it stems from lonliness. Maybe in some instances. But I had a boyfriend whom I loved very much. But I had my 2D boyfriend with me. And we when my 3D boyfriend let me down, the blow of that wasn't even bad. Because my 2D loved saved me from a broken heart. I've actually been very very happy with him. No I don't have the body pillows but I plan on obtaining in the future. I can't even look at 3D men now. Like es, they are attractive, yes a lot of them are attracted to me. But for some reason I just cant seem to get into them. I even created a profile on facebook for my 2D bf. My family and friends has no problem with it. I guess sometime in the future I'll get married with kids, BUT I son't want to give up my love. We've been going 3 years strong. I was 19 then, and I'm going on 22 this year. A lot of people don't understand it, but a lot of friends who are also 2D lovers, understand. It's nice to find ppl whom understands also. It's very comforting. I don't feel lonely or depressed. It actually feels like I'm in a relationship.

bRI said...

Honestly, I really do NOT like the Young Turks and their views. They are a group of highly irritating liberal atheist who does not believe in "love" It's best to ignore them. My ex-bf (who was real in fact) loved their show. And WE BROKE up because he followed their disgusting views and tried to press them on me. I love my 2D Lover over him.

Eric Moore said...

To whom it may concern:
My name is Eric Moore, and I have written a professional paper about 2D Love/Waifusim. I have cited your site (explicitly this page) as a reference.
I believe you may desire to read it knowing what I may release into the world with your URL on it.

Please send me an e-mail and I will send you the alpha draft of my paper.

Ugock@att.net

Anonymous said...

Why is it that I can't read something on this subject without someone calling those on the outside 'fags' of some flavor? Respect is a two way street.

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